trans_pilgrims | discussion of OOC game issues

discussion of OOC game issues

Okay I know I said no more planning/discussion posts from me, but I lied. Evidently there are enough people who don't feel comfortable bringing issues up non-anonly, so I am going to try to start some discussions for them, with the intent of getting things out in the open so we don't have stuff seething under the surface which inevitably explodes with drama.

Since not all of these are my own personal concerns, I am making an open post, so that everyone can add their voices/their concerns to it. This is not going to be an exhaustive list, it is just meant to be a jumping off point.

Here's the list to get us started:

1. the game runs very slow for long periods, and then there are bursts of activity where everything else has to stop, while we wait for a plot to finish. During this time, non-combat characters feel like they have nothing to do and that they're closed out of the game since they have to wait for plot to finish before open posting is allowed again.

Thoughts: away teams (especially those that are for non-combat characters) and player run plots should help this issue. Can we get an actual estimated time-frame on when away teams/player plots will actually go into effect, IC?

2. people might feel like mods are not addressing an issue when in fact someone might have brought it up to the mods privately and they are working on it.

Thoughts: more mod to the game as a whole communication is needed. Something like a regular post from the mods saying "we are aware of issues XY&Z and we are working on them" might be appropriate?

3. on the front of mod communication, is there a reason we don't have a drop box where people who don't feel comfortable speaking up logged in can tell the mods their concerns anonymously?

4. Also in the vein of mod communication, some people feel there's too much secrecy in terms of what's going to happen, which hinders player plotting, and also can slow up the game if people feel like there's nothing going on or that they're not allowed to be involved in whatever's going on. I know this has been brought up to the mods before but I don't think it's ever been satisfactorily resolved?

Thoughts: the mods could do a regular post of "this is what we can and can't tell you about what is upcoming in the game." It would also give players an opportunity to say "I want to do X, is that going to interfere in the game plot?" and the mods could say "we can't tell you specifics, but yes, there will be something going on during that frame of time." or "no, go ahead," or whatever. An actual post seems preferable, because even if the mods say something in chat, only a small percentage of the game is actually in chat at any given time.

5. there does seem to be a recurring problem where people will bring up issues/concerns/things that need to be worked on, and discussion will start on the issue, but then nothing will ever be finalized. The two specific examples I'm thinking of here are:

a. I know there's been discussion of how to re-structure the away teams, but if any actual decisions were ever made and implemented, I don't know about them. That could be a fail on my part, but I kind of think it's because things didn't actually get finalized.

b. after the drama after the nightmare king plot, there was discussion on the issue of the fact that a lot of the day to day things characters do get handwaved instead of actually threaded out, (for example, regular training. the rogues train every day, but we obviously don't have daily logs) however, other players would not know that you are handwaving certain activities for your character, unless you tell them. Making assumptions about what is and isn't being handwaved ... well, it's trite, but we all know what happens when you "assume".

Thoughts: if issues get brought up in the OOC, I think someone needs to be responsible for making sure the issue is actually resolved. My suggestion would be that a mod or helper mod step forward and say "Okay, for issue X, I am going to be responsible for making sure a resolution is reached" and then they follow through, and if the discussion dies out or whatever, say "Okay, a call needs to be made on what the conclusion here is, so here's the call."

a: if people who know about the away teams could step up and get things finalized, that would be awesome sauce

b: there was a proposal of having some kind of regular weekly or bi-weekly post where players could check in and say "in this week, my character has been up to X" or "I've been handwaving my character doing X". that way we would have all that information in one place, and if people wanted to know what was going on, they could check that post. also if they saw something they were interested in threading out, it would be a place where they could drop the other player a line saying "hey, can we actually log this?"

And now I'm tired of typing, so I'm going to let other people do the talking.

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I know I shouldn't be the one discussing this because both of my characters are combat, but I want to know what we can do for you.

What did you app them here to do? How did they help out/hurt people on their worlds/in canon? Maybe those plots will give us ideas on how your guys can be badass, because I know you haven't really had chances yet.

Edited 2010-07-11 17:36 (UTC)

I would love to help the non-combat dudes find something they're suited for, too.

IMMA BRAINSTORM.

- Bridge crew
- Quartermaster/supply management
- Protesting the increasing militarization of the ship
- Support staff for a council member
- Teachers
- Exploring/mapping the city and the ship
- Going through the media library looking for info on the Ohm
- Writing "Welcome To Stacy: An Introductory Pop-Up Book for Recent Podpops"
- Organizing boxing matches and other ways to blow off steam -- hey, it happened on BSG
- Entertainment at the bar
- After most recent shore leave, sewing
- With hydroponics up, tending hydroponics
- With hydroponics up, cooking
- Organize and participate in a beauty pageant -- yes, I'm serious (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hqsbNrcgXI&feature=related)

Edited 2010-07-11 20:10 (UTC)

*sporfle* Those are fantastic ideas, especially the beauty pageant. I can count some interested characters offhand.

But I think anons want them incorporated into plot missions. The plot climaxes always seem to rely on the combat characters, and we want ways for the others to have a turn.

Mechanics having a role in the defense grid in the last plot was good, and civilians could help evacuate, but there have to be ways for diplomats, chefs, manipulators, professional cheerer-uppers, and others to get chances to shine too. And more chances for people from the other departments---science, medical---hey, they might solve a mystery and cure a rare disease someday!

Classes for science, medicine, piloting, fighting, and bridge stuff are good for that. But we need to get the combat characters out of the spotlight and the others into it, is what I think anons are saying.

I still think bridge crew is a great chance for that. :( People who can observe the battle and go "Oh my god, X group of people is about to die! Y, go help them!" and to launch fighters.

To get Science/Magical into it, maybe we could start a plot where we try to find a way to block the Ohm communication! Then they could get into battles to try to use their stuff and get into all sorts of danger? Or just to use experimental weapons and stuff...?

Or we could have a plot where we send out a negotiation party and they get taken prisoner and McGuyver their way out of danger.

Yeah! As many sci fi shows tell us, some pretty darn exciting things can happen on the bridge. It'd be neat to see more of that.

I like those ideas, and I'll try to brainstorm more for the mods to pick through.

Do plot missions always need to involve the Ohm directly? I imagine with the Ohm...being the Ohm, when they're around things will inevitably end up as a battle. But perhaps they could have missions to worlds that don't have an incoming Ohm attack - like, say, perhaps they could have a mission to a world with a powerful race that could be a potential ally, and they have to convince them to join the fight or something.

Yeah! I don't think we'll be running into them at every single turn. I've heard talk of true shore leaves without attacks, missions like the one you describe....that's why there's going to be so many missions, and player-designed ones too.

But the mods should be able to give you a more definite answer.

Hah, I'm just trying to toss up ideas like everyone else atm XD

I agree with Zoki.

Also. YES ENTERTAINMENT FOR THE TAVERN. That would be wonderful.

*readies her cello or the alien equivalent she got on shore leave*

This was something I was thinking about possibly doing with Daja when I still had her - she's not around, but others might still be able to make use of it.

Basically, since the guys have currency we could have people setting up shops and trading. We could even have like a regular market in the city or something, where people bring whatever their goods and services are and everyone else buys them. We've already got a few business, so perhaps encouraging some more will help those characters finding a bit lost find a niche?

...okay Shaela just reminded me that we don't have money on the ship yet, so. I guess this is an idea for when we do? XD

someone could design the money! any artists out there?

ffff now you've just reminded me of Making Money XD (Quick, someone app Moist! He could start the Bank of Meatship!)

Oh man, I love the Moist books. I couldn't play him in a million years, but those books are the best.

Carry on! xD

Usually the problem that comes up for me isn't that my characters can't do combat, it's that they're outclassed by other people. Steve literally learned to shoot by picking up a gun and imitating what he saw in a movie and though he can improvise pretty good, when a plot comes up that calls for people who can shoot, he gets outclassed by people more qualified than him pretty damn quickly. And I'm not comfortable exaggerating his abilities past what I know is appropriate for him, even if it'd mean he gets more action. Luis falls into this situation too-- he can use a gun, but he's no warrior at all. I'm not concerned about him though because he's at least qualified for science. It's the characters who aren't really qualified for anything that end up getting left out. I can hardly imagine what the players of child characters feel like.

I think the last plot did a better job of having things for everybody to do, as opposed to the Nightmare plot where it was specified that only "badass" normals could make it to the final stage-- then a post was thrown up for everyone else to use, but it was a free-for-all and it was just to keep us busy until we could post freely again.

On a related note, is it really necessary for everyone to have to wait for one thread to get totally finished up before other sections of plot can go up? I think it would help a lot if things were kept moving with different sections of plot going up concurrently, as long as everyone has the timeline straight in general. Bendytime disappears when plots come along and you have the situation where a section of the playerbase-- characters who are unqualified-- end up having to wait weeks for those who are involved just so that they can do anything at all.

I see the skill-outclassing as a common issue. With so many characters with such a wide skillset, it's bound to happen across the board that there's a 'best of the best' group in each category and everyone else feels sidelined.

Would it be feasible to include more targets---so many that the 'best' ones can't handle it all? Or that they're out of commission in some plots?

That waiting issue is definitely a big one, and I hope it's addressed.

Both sounds pretty feasible to me. Actually, that's what happened back on the Bridge plot with the zombies-- I liked that because all of mine got to do something because there was enough for them all to do. Unfortunately the waiting thing came up again and we ended up getting stuck capping zombies for two weeks while we waited for things to wrap up elsewhere. I think it's important that all sections of plot get kept going and nothing ends up as a "dumping ground" to keep people busy, because that tends to attract a certain type of character... and you get where I'm going with that.

I think many of the dissenters would appreciate some plots left solely to the norms. Not that I don't love all our space marines and superheroes, but they have a tendency to fill things up rather quickly.

That would help some for the characters who are merely outclassed, but there still needs to be stuff for those without combat ability at all. Which is... admittedly hard. I've been trying to think of things that are A. useful B. more than a short term thing C. actually something that people would want to thread/do.

This might be reassuring to people so I wanna post it. Last the mods said, we were getting to player plots after elections and organizing the crew (which ends in, what, two weeks?), and the system they want to put in place will allow players to vote on plots they want to do each plot cycle.

Of the plots, while doing the plan, Karl and I split them into combat plots, non-combat plots, and hybrid plots. There are actually more non-combat and hybrid plots than combat plots and Karl said that each cycle, there'd be a mandatory non-combat plot, and most of the times the other plots will be hybrids, where combat happens but there's definite stuff for other people to do.

So that is something that will go a ways towards resolving that issue and the issue of non-combatants not having a lot to do was specifically why we organized it that way.

For this, I need to make a big, BIG suggestion of more plot ideas, specifically for non-fighty characters to be made to the plot suggestion post (http://community.livejournal.com/trans_pilgrims/10258.html). We have a ton, but if they're going to be mandatory every time, we definitely need more of them.

So for the system what we're getting put in place both puts the selection of plots in the hands of the players, and makes one plot per plot turn a non-combat plot every single plot round. (And most of the rest will be hybrids that have both combat and non-combat roles).

That is somewhat reassuring!

But another problem also comes up when combat characters are also qualified for noncombat roles. If the mission involves six people entering Nathan's Famous Hot-Dog Eating contest, those six people could just as easily be Badass McGrizzledspacemarine and his crew as they could Average Joe. And let's face it, we have a majority of Badass McGrizzledspacemarines. I know there's been several occasions when the part fills up too fast and nonfighty people get left out anyway.

I'm not sure exactly how to remedy this aside from players agreeing to take turns, because we don't want to get to the point of mods policing who does what everywhere.

Well, IDK. There will be one or two other plots with combat roles each round. I think maybe we need some kind of rule for the noncombat one that if you have a warrior, fighter, or otherwise fighty character, they can't go on that mission. And we could always use Stacy ICly to select them. That noncombat mission is meant specifically for noncombat characters.

I think, considering that the combat characters get plenty thrown their way, that it's fair even just having a rule in place that any hardcore combatant isn't allowed in those plots. The hard part is deciding who counts as a fighter.

this is awesome to know. maybe it should go in some kind of official announcement post, so that the people who are not wading through the comments to this post have a chance to read it as well?

Unfortunately, you have to poke the actual mods for that. I'm just plot mod, and can only do behind-the-scenes stuff. It's a little out of my jurisdiction to make announcements for stuff.

Karl gave me the okay to post this here, that's the only reason I said it.

But I think the mods were planning to start discussion on it, and about the bits that need to be worked out, like the voting, soon. Again, something a "What the Mods Are Working on" post would help with.

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discussion of OOC game issues

issue 1: game speed and character involvement

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