trans_pilgrims | discussion of OOC game issues

Okay I know I said no more planning/discussion posts from me, but I lied. Evidently there are enough people who don't feel comfortable bringing issues up non-anonly, so I am going to try to start some discussions for them, with the intent of getting things out in the open so we don't have stuff seething under the surface which inevitably explodes with drama.

Since not all of these are my own personal concerns, I am making an open post, so that everyone can add their voices/their concerns to it. This is not going to be an exhaustive list, it is just meant to be a jumping off point.

Here's the list to get us started:

1. the game runs very slow for long periods, and then there are bursts of activity where everything else has to stop, while we wait for a plot to finish. During this time, non-combat characters feel like they have nothing to do and that they're closed out of the game since they have to wait for plot to finish before open posting is allowed again.

Thoughts: away teams (especially those that are for non-combat characters) and player run plots should help this issue. Can we get an actual estimated time-frame on when away teams/player plots will actually go into effect, IC?

2. people might feel like mods are not addressing an issue when in fact someone might have brought it up to the mods privately and they are working on it.

Thoughts: more mod to the game as a whole communication is needed. Something like a regular post from the mods saying "we are aware of issues XY&Z and we are working on them" might be appropriate?

3. on the front of mod communication, is there a reason we don't have a drop box where people who don't feel comfortable speaking up logged in can tell the mods their concerns anonymously?

4. Also in the vein of mod communication, some people feel there's too much secrecy in terms of what's going to happen, which hinders player plotting, and also can slow up the game if people feel like there's nothing going on or that they're not allowed to be involved in whatever's going on. I know this has been brought up to the mods before but I don't think it's ever been satisfactorily resolved?

Thoughts: the mods could do a regular post of "this is what we can and can't tell you about what is upcoming in the game." It would also give players an opportunity to say "I want to do X, is that going to interfere in the game plot?" and the mods could say "we can't tell you specifics, but yes, there will be something going on during that frame of time." or "no, go ahead," or whatever. An actual post seems preferable, because even if the mods say something in chat, only a small percentage of the game is actually in chat at any given time.

5. there does seem to be a recurring problem where people will bring up issues/concerns/things that need to be worked on, and discussion will start on the issue, but then nothing will ever be finalized. The two specific examples I'm thinking of here are:

a. I know there's been discussion of how to re-structure the away teams, but if any actual decisions were ever made and implemented, I don't know about them. That could be a fail on my part, but I kind of think it's because things didn't actually get finalized.

b. after the drama after the nightmare king plot, there was discussion on the issue of the fact that a lot of the day to day things characters do get handwaved instead of actually threaded out, (for example, regular training. the rogues train every day, but we obviously don't have daily logs) however, other players would not know that you are handwaving certain activities for your character, unless you tell them. Making assumptions about what is and isn't being handwaved ... well, it's trite, but we all know what happens when you "assume".

Thoughts: if issues get brought up in the OOC, I think someone needs to be responsible for making sure the issue is actually resolved. My suggestion would be that a mod or helper mod step forward and say "Okay, for issue X, I am going to be responsible for making sure a resolution is reached" and then they follow through, and if the discussion dies out or whatever, say "Okay, a call needs to be made on what the conclusion here is, so here's the call."

a: if people who know about the away teams could step up and get things finalized, that would be awesome sauce

b: there was a proposal of having some kind of regular weekly or bi-weekly post where players could check in and say "in this week, my character has been up to X" or "I've been handwaving my character doing X". that way we would have all that information in one place, and if people wanted to know what was going on, they could check that post. also if they saw something they were interested in threading out, it would be a place where they could drop the other player a line saying "hey, can we actually log this?"

And now I'm tired of typing, so I'm going to let other people do the talking.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

2.) That's a good idea, only sometimes it's possible that they might not WANT their concerns aired out publicly - but I think it might not be a bad idea for us to tell THEM that we're working on it.

3 http://community.livejournal.com/trans_pilgrims/166295.html? That's pretty much the same thing, especially since everything is screened.

3. well, obviously I don't have a problem saying things logged in, but several(?) people are saying they do. Is there a reason not to have a crit box with anon turned *on*?

The other mods might want to jump in on fielding this :|a (eta: not meaning to say you don't have the authority or something, funk, just you might not know the reason for the policy or something)

2. lol I'm going to be editing this forever. Anyway, obviously in the case where a player wants to keep their concerns private, that would be something different. Idk, it's a tricky thing, because on the one hand I can see that probably a lot of people actually would want to not have the fact that they complained about something aired publically. But otoh, having people go "man the mods aren't dealing with this!" when they really are is also problematic :|c

Edited 2010-07-11 18:07 (UTC)

I'm not averse to having anon-enabled crit. The only reason it hasn't been implemented before is because no one has ever brought the fact that they'd prefer it to our attention.

With an anon suggestion post, my worry as a player, which is the same as my worry when I was a mod, is how the heck do you know if the anon is even from the game? Case in point with the current anon stuff, apparently there was a former player masquerading as a current player? There have also, in the past, been people that targeted the game on the memes just to mess with people, to be assholes, when they weren't even in the game.

How do you know if someone says "ZOMG, Player Y and so did X, I am complaining about it" that they're not just making shit up about Player Y? To verify it, the mods need a log or something anyway, so the person would have to sign in or give themselves away somehow to give proof.

Anon discussions can be constructive. Apparently, the memes have, surprisingly, proven that this time. But anon complaint posts where people are directly addressing issues have a tremendous potential for abuse, especially given some former players clearly are holding grudges. And then if the mods don't act on those complaints (even if there's lack of proof so they can't really act on them) they'll be accused of ignoring those complaints.

If the mods go with that (and it does have positives) what would be their ways of compensating for the negatives? What's enough information for them to act on, and so on? Before implementing an anon post, I think all that needs to be established with it: what kinds of conflicts it can be used to address, what anons have to provide as proof to make a complaint if they're targeting a specific player's behavior, and so on.

And maybe they have to do a secret handshake so we know they're actually in the game or actually still in the game, lol.

Edited 2010-07-12 06:56 (UTC)

Oops, this was meant to be to Karl's post, oh well.

...................... these are all very valid concerns. Idk, if you decide not to have an anonbox, make an official post in the OOC explaining your reasons, so that when anons are like "the mods just haaaaate ussss!" people can be like "... um, no."

Not that that will actually stop anons from complaining, mind, but it will help other players, I think, to know there is actual thought going into this, instead of just blanket dismissal :|a

Not my decision, I'm just plot mod. That's just what I worried about back WHEN I was a mod and what I still worry about as a player.

But yeah, the mods need to do that.

At this point, I can see the benefits, I can see the downsides. If the mods go with it, they need to have a plan to deal with the downsides, and if they don't go with it, they need to explain why they aren't and explain what the downsides are.

Honestly, and this is me speaking personally rather than on behalf of the team, I really don't feel that it's an issue. If someone raises a complaint about another player, we're not going to do anything without evidence. A complaint might cause us to look into it and maybe ask other people if they've had any experience with the same. If they say "Yeah, actually, player X does Y a lot," then the complaint is a valid one and it's good that it was brought to our attention no matter by who. If they say "No, I've never seen player X do Y," then we just say "Sorry, we don't have any evidence of that behavior and can't act on it" to the anon in question.

If a concern or complaint is valid, it doesn't matter who brought it up. If it's not valid, then we won't act on it. It isn't like the anon suggestion box is a command saying "Do this."

I figure with that, the burden of proof has on the anon, or they have to just hope someone else also has proof, so they can't just make stuff up.

That's basically all I needed to hear--how you guys would handle prooflessness.

discussion of OOC game issues

Re: issue 2&3: communication with the mods

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Re: issue 2&3: communication with the mods

Re: issue 2&3: communication with the mods

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Re: issue 2&3: communication with the mods

Re: issue 2&3: communication with the mods